Posts Tagged ‘tuition’

Let’s Talk Payback

So, while many prospective students would agree that these programs are expensive, the key point is that you can pay back the education with the increased salary that you will get after the training.

this logic is solid, but needs to be confirmed or mapped out.  in the long run, almost any increase will pay off because anyone under 30 will likely see over 30-35 years in any projection of an increase.  in fact, if the increase was only $1.00 per hour for someone at 25 years old and planning to retire at 65, the benefit would be over $80,000 paying for just about any education costs.

however, one of the key selling points to prospects from the for-profit market and American Career College is the speed.  they say, “in just 8 months you will learn medical assisting and you will immediately start this new career with increased pay”.  so the real question is how long will it take for you be able to break even on the expense and actually get to spend the extra money that you are earning?  the answer is not very exciting for those who have to take out loans to pay for this decision.

so let’s take a look at medical assisting and look at the sources.  on the American Career College website, they reference the bureau of labor statistics – an excellent government source about employment.  on that page they show the following table about wages:

the school would love to tell you that you will make the median wage.  but this figure is the median for ALL medical assistants and at the time of graduation, you will have zero experience.  more realistic salary will be somewhere around the 10%-25%.  what is true, is that california pays more and this chart is for all of US.  so, because this information is not available, we will assume the top end (25%) for any student coming out of the American Career College MA program.

also, we will compare the change from minimum wage job and from a job at $10/hr.  additionally we will compare at various levels of grants versus loans.

bottom line, unless you are getting at least 50% of the program covered in grants (money that does not have to be paid back), you will need at least one full year of living in the same conditions you were before you go to school to use the extra money to pay off your school loans.  If you were making $10/hour and pay for the entire program with loans, it will take almost 5 years.  we are absolutely sure, given the stories we have heard about American Career College and other for-profit schools, that this is not being shared with prospective students.

lets compare it to community college.  using cerritos college information from the web site, a comparable program would be 30.5 credits at $20 a credit for a total of $610.  there are a number of other fees like parking and the like so we have used $1,000 for the analysis.  also, we are going to assume that all of it is loaned versus having any grants – see below:

yes, you are reading that correctly.  the community college comparison requires either 2 months or 4 months to pay back the debt.  and while we acknowledge that the community college system is more difficult to navigate and may take a little longer, think about waiting 5 years after you are done with school to actually feel the benefits of the new job.

*Analysis assumes 40 work weeks, 52 weeks a year.

Categories: Student Advice Tags: ,

The Anatomy of the For-Profit Postsecondary Certificate Scam

over the holiday weekend, we received a couple feedback items – one being a tweet from an account apparently set up only to let us know that we need to “relax”.  from this “one tweet, one follow” mobile account, we got a link to an article that uses the infamous Steven Slater JetBlue emergency-slide-with-a-beer as a basis to suggest how you should leave a business “with class”.

after talking about it, the group felt is was a fairly transparent attempt by members at american career college or west coast university to try to get us to stop our efforts.  but we did not want to be too dismissive and, more importantly, we wanted to use it as an opportunity to show how equating our effort to the actions of a frustrated flight attendant veteran could not be farther from the truth.  our team is trying to bring attention to predatory practices by exposing or highlighting the actions of a specific organization engaged in the behavior.

the group also concluded that there might be a knowledge gap out there.  while our team thinks it is obvious how an organization can take advantage of the student loan/grant program, we realized that many of you do not work in the industry and you do not have the experience we do.  we realized that we need to spend a little time explaining how it works and decided to dedicate today’s post to this explanation.

the setup

starting a for-profit school simple in concept, but difficult to execute and the accreditation process at the beginning is appropriately rigorous.  there are on-site visits and standards that must be cleared to get started and each program has a number of reviews and associations that manage each program.

the weak link is in the maintenance of those that have been established for a while.  programs that were setup and accredited 10-20 years ago are not scrutinized nearly as much as new programs.  as with many things, the process of keeping a program is much simpler than trying to start a new one.  Additionally, over a 10-20 year period, the schools and agencies establish a relationship. this is not illegal by any means, but schools fund the accrediting agencies and it creates very difficult situation for review teams if they know that harsh discipline might cause a school to leave for another accrediting agency and reduce the fees they collect (same complaint made about the MMS in the oil/gas regulation).  this creates a system that tends to acquiesce more than it should.

while this part of the system has holes, the dishonest behavior really does not rest here.  all interactions with accrediting organizations have for the most part been forthright, honest and true to its responsibilities.  it is the fact that the group is routinely undermanned and spread thin leaving much more responsibility to run a respectable education institution to those that are leading the for-profit organization.

the for-profit certificate product

the selection of the program that a school will run is critical and, in the past, led to success or failure.  now, because of the enormous growth of the industry, the programs that will generate the best profits and the least scrutiny have been identified and are top on the list for any certification.  these programs include:

medical assisting
medical billing
pharmacy tech
massage therapy

the programs are popular with for-profit schools because they are short in length, require limited classroom size and labs, and have aspirational components to them (a paralegal is like a lawyer, a medical assistant is like a nurse, etc.).  additionally, there are good job prospects and the community college system either does not have the resources to accommodate the demand or substitution programs are not available.

to this point, there is nothing wrong and the for-profit education component is working as it should – fulfilling demand that the public system cannot support.  it would be appropriate that the business take a profit for delivering education that the some patrons might find to be superior and pay a premium (where the profit comes from) for this.  at this point, all is pretty good and it really speaks to why this system exists in the first place.

getting what you paid for?

it is irrefutable (at least in southern california).  the costs of taking one of these programs at a for-profit school is somewhere around 15x-20x taking it at a community college (see tuition page – $600-$1,000 vs. $15,000).  this is a fact.  to put it in context – this is the same as buying an ipad for $7,500-$12,000 or $48.75 for a Big Mac.  why would ANYONE do this?

access – there are admissions standards at community college and a process, by necessity, to limit enrollment.  so while there is plenty of demand, there will be people left behind and the community college wants to focus its resources on those with a track record of performing well in the classroom.  this leaves a group of people underserved and this group might pay 15x more to simply get the opportunity to theoretically atone for not doing as well in past classrooms.

speed – another reason someone might buy the $47 hamburger is because of speed.  the sooner the student is done, the sooner she will be earning the higher wage.  for-profits push this argument to its farthest point using averages and generalized education statistics to move this point as far as possible.

better outcomes – lastly, prospects might pay a 1500% premium for better outcomes.  if attending a particular institution could ensure a better chance of success (i.e. getting a better paying job in the new field), it would make sense for her to pay more to attend that school.

admittedly, there are a few more arenas that might have someone pay more, but we find it hard to believe that any of these would effectively motivate someone to pay such a high price.

double-edged sword

unfortunately for the for-profit school, these advantages that can create better pricing opportunities create their own problems.  while providing access to less accomplished students is laudable on many levels, it will increase cost and efforts as the organization develops ways to help students play catch up academically.  Simultaneously, this is challenged by the second point – speed – and pretty much makes it impossible to take every less educated student and teach them MORE in a shorter time period than the traditional process.  the result is that outcomes are challenged to exceed its traditional counterparts because it requires for better comprehension and better preparation in a shorter amount of time from a group that excludes all those that were accepted from the community college system.  it is impossible to believe that for-profit outcomes could exceed its counterparts – let alone exceed it by 15x to justify the price differential.

against the grain of market rules

while solutions like lowering price to be more in line with community college or taking more time to improve the quality of the education are available, this would challenge the margins and the profit of the business significantly.  so, by most free market standards, there is no reason for the proposal from a for-profit school like american career college or west coast university should thrive and grow.  how does it survive?

the key centers around government support – but not the one you usually hear about from the for-profit organizations.  while it is undeniable that the government provides money to the public school system (incl. community colleges), the government program that is bastardizing the system is the one that is given directly to the student – student grants (which do not have to be paid back) and loans (that do have to be paid back).

when a student contacts a school like american career college to find out about the admissions process, the school will, as it should, tout its clear benefits – access and speed.  this is used to get students more interested which by any account is not controversial on any level.  but once the price tag comes out, it is a very tough sales endeavor to get anyone to fork up the $47 for that Big Mac – no matter how many I can get or how soon you can get it to me.

and this is the moment of truth.  faced with this, the business could accept the signs provided by the marketplace and lower the price to something that equates the profits to  the value of access, speed and outcome, ignoring the way that the student pays for it and accepting its place in the market.  or it can choose to enter the government subsidy into the equation and price to maximize it.  most schools to the latter and while it is clear that this slope is slippery, no one has really gone over the edge yet.  it is when you start to target prospects based on her grant and/or loan availability,  you start to get into the predatory practices.  This is because of the student’s mindset to grants versus loans versus personal funds as well as the hierarcial distribution of these funds.

as many know, student aid is based on need.  the more need, the more favorable the terms of your funds.  explicitly, the child of a middle income family would likely get a range of loan options with no grant money; conversely, a member of a poverty level family will likely see mostly grants before they would even need to consider loans.

while loans delay the payment, most students understand that at some point they will need to pay it back and so it makes the investment easier but there is still something to consider.  It is treated as layaway or a payment plan.  grants, on the other hand, simply lower the price and are considered a “coupon”, if you will.  it is this situation that fuels the decision making of the executive teams and creates the inappropriate actions.

how did the price of for-profit schools get to be 15x that of community college?

imagine to start, that the price was the same – lets say $1,000 for an medical assistant program both at a community college and a for-profit school. price would not be an issue and the student would pick a school for independent reasons.  Also, because of the government public education subsidies, the community college would have more money in the end and the for-profit school would likely be taking a loss.

so now the for profit school has to charge 50% more to make up for the public education subsidy and to equal the financial outcome making the price $1,500 for the same MA program.  If this happened, then the school would have a very difficult time justifying the extra 50% without creating benefits that make a student spend more.  This might be access, speed or outcomes.

But what if there is a way that I can get my extra $500 without making these improvements?  Here is where grants come in.  In essence, finding a student who comes to the door with $500 in grant money just lowered your price by the same amount.  so this student uses the $500 does not care about the potential benefits of access, speed or outcomes.  this simultaneously makes the cost of potential projects to build these advantages unnecessary and the school simply pockets the $500 as profit.

What if that person comes to the door with $8,000 of grant money?  while the substitute product only cost $1,000, you can charge $9,000 and the financial decision returns to neutral.  and if my costs are $1,000 (as stated before – without a need for projects), I get to clear $8,000 for myself.

this works also as you slide up the need continuum and include loans.  what if a student comes with $8,000 in grants and $2,000 in loans?  can we charge $11,000?  sure! the cost to the student is now $1,000 today (same as community college) and $2,000 to me over the next 10 years when I will conceivably will have more income.  the loan gets discounted in the mind of the prospect (thanks to some pressure by the admissions rep) and the $1,000 today is the perceived price.

now you can see how there is every incentive to pursue the students with the most need so my company can continue to raise the price.

this has got to create problems….its too easy.

well, as stated before, we know that student loans/grants are based on need so lets just find the most in need.  however, these are also the least educated and least prepared to make these decisions (there are plenty of studies out there supporting education and income correlations).  it generates a litany of questions.

how can we realistically give the less educated a comparable education in less time?

are we sure that these prospects understand what they are signing up for?

we need to exceed in outcomes – how do we do that when we have time constraints?

unfortunately, these questions often get replaced by the following questions from admissions or the business office.

so how does my business find more of these people with the $8,000 free money versus those with none or only $500?

this is where an organization starts to get into trouble.  by answering the first set of questions with “lets get the money first and then we will deal with that”, the organization has left the education harbor and drifted into the sea of profits, from which it is very difficult to return.  so when you read stories about recruiting in homeless shelters and the like, you can now see how valuable the high financial need prospects are.  they are so valuable that an organization would do this in the open with little attempt to conceal.

why aren’t there more lawsuits/complaints/outrage about this?

there are many reasons why this has stayed under the radar.  first is that the government has implemented rules to target these practices.  specifically there is a 90%/10% rule which requires at least 10% of students’ tuition to come from outside the student loan program. this however is toothless as most will solve by using private loans which really does not help the student any.  additionally for every $1 in a private loan, the organization gets $9 of guaranteed funds from federal student aid.  with this kind of trade off, any accountant would be happy to take on risk on the private loan front.

additionally, there are rules around admissions team compensation plans that are meant to curb aggressive practices.  what the government has yet to recognize is that these rules have all been effectively gamed by the industry and most of the institutions have found fixes around these.

another reason is that the victims of these crimes are either members of the underprivileged community or the faceless taxpayer, both of whom have a difficult time mounting a meaningful defense.  because the victims cannot mobilize, it goes somewhat unreported.

lastly, it is very difficult to communicate or determine “intent”.  when a group is recruiting in a homeless shelter, are they trying to provide better opportunities or trying to steal government grant money?  it is tough to parse and due to the general positive public sentiment of educators, many have received a pass on this.

what are we to do?

going back to the start of this post, you now might understand better why we just cannot see a connection between what we are trying to do with our collection of former employees and Steve Slater of JetBlue fame.  while Mr. slater was upset and frustrated over years of abuse from clients, he would acknowledge that it was all within the realm of the job he selected and he at no time was asked to bend laws, bankrupt students, or put undue pressure on prospects to do his job effectively.

our group understands the inner workings of an organization that is knowingly using underprivileged communities to get access to government funds without delivering anything close to the performance that justifies charging 15x the price.  No one bemoans those that uncovered that the Department of Defense was paying $640 per toilet seat – we believe that we are providing the same public information campaign.  taking the advice of Frankie and “relax” is just not the appropriate response to an industry stealing billions of our dollars and giving to a select few wolves in sheep’s clothing.  in our opinion, telling the story to the public shows more class than letting it go forward unchecked.

if, after reading this, you agree that this is as large of a problem as we think, please help us promote the site.  you can reach us at or follow us on twitter (@frndofstudents) or facebook (friendofthestudent page).

Hide and Seek on the American Career College Website – #2

what is REALLY missing from the site is the information that you need to make your decision about the school.  that information is the placement rates for the various programs.  why is this not included?  because apparently there is something to hide.

why do we say that?  well, let’s think through it.  in the end, the reason every student chooses a program like those offered at American Career College is to get a job and start on the new path for the rest of their life.  students pay extra (around 15x the cost at community college) because they want a streamlined program and support they don’t expect to receive from the traditional school system (in a later post we will talk about how for-profits consistently underdeliver).

while the support component might be difficult to quantify, getting jobs for students is not.  it is called placement rate.  Every for-profit school knows what it is because they must track it in order to maintain accreditation and federal recognition for Title IV funding.  the question is why this number is not available on the website?  if they are placing well, wouldn’t it be front and center showing how they get students jobs?

we contacted ABHES, the accrediting institution for American Career College, and they told us to ask the school for this rate.  this is just daring ACC to make up the number, and from what we have heard, they do.  programs from medical assisting, pharmacy technician, vocational nursing and medical billing have all been under the required 70% placement rate by ABHES in the last few years.  yet, this is not shown anywhere public and is supposed to be covered in the private meeting when the prospect is alone with the admissions representative.  what is really happening is that the information is buried in the enrollment agreement is mixed in with a stack of documents.  students enrolling don’t even know that they are acknowledging that they were told these lousy placement numbers.

think about this.  70% is seven out of ten.  even if they make this requirement it means that 3 out of every 10 students that attend American Career College will pay 15-20x the cost at community college and will still be looking for work.

3 out of every 10 will not be able to transfer the credits they just earned, they will not be able to get their loan forgiven and they will not be able to get the time they just wasted back.

3 out of every 10 will have just made their life worse than it was before they went to school.

explain to us again why do we need organizations that act like this in our community?!?!

American Career College Tuition

November 17, 2010 1 comment

In our last post we talked about how the tuition for American Career College was buried to hide the ridiculous costs they are charging to students and, though government loans, the taxpayer.  Instead of letting this stay the case, we thought we would help the search engines out buy posting it on using this search friendly forum.

2010 Tuition Summary
American Career College Tuition – Dental Assisting – $15,540.00
American Career College Tuition – Health Claims Examiner / Medical Biller – $15,287.50
American Career College Tuition – Massage Therapy – $15,287.50
American Career College Tuition – Medical Assistant – $15,287.50
American Career College Tuition – Optical Dispensing –  $15,287.50
American Career College Tuition – Pharmacy Technician – $15,287.50
American Career College Tuition – Associate’s in Health Information Technology –  $31,077.50
American Career College Tuition – Associate’s in Respiratory Therapy – $42,607.50
American Career College Tuition – Associate’s Surgical Technology – $33,157.50
American Career College Tuition – Vocational Nursing – $33,157.50
American Career College Tuition – Vocational Nursing Evening/ Weekend- $34,737.50


Quick comparison – Santa Ana College cost is $20 a credit with the medical assisting certificate program requiring around 30 credits.  Tuition cost = $600.


Hide and Seek on American Career College’s New Website (Part #1)

recently, American Career College spent thousands of dollars updated its website.  while this change seems to provide more information, most notably what is missing is anything that relates to the tuition costs for the school.  additionally, it is very difficult to determine when classes start.  This information seems to be missing from the site.

this is a long standing tactic at American Career College.  the reason you cannot find the information on the site is because they are trying to force you to give them your contact information so they can release their admissions staff on you to pressure you into attending classes.  that is why there is no problem finding the lead form – but good luck finding the tuition and class schedules.

why do we bring this up?  because this year, the state of California reinitiated its agency that is responsible for regulating for-profit schools.  In the new regulations, the Bureau for Private Post-Secondary Education (BPPE) specifically requires that this information – along with anything information that is required in the catalog, be included on the website without requiring the forfeiture of lead information.  See paragraph “O” section 94897 entitled “Prohibited Business Practices” (  It specifically states the following:

(o) Require a prospective student to provide personal contact information in order to obtain, from the institution’s Internet Web site, educational program information that is required to be contained in the school catalog or any information required pursuant to the consumer information requirements of Title IV of the federal Higher Education Act of 1965, and any amendments thereto.

did American Career College revamped its website and not include this information and are violating this regulation?  the short answer of it is no.  but they try pretty hard to make sure you can’t find it.  see this video that shows how hard it is to find this information on its website.



why would they do this.  well there are a couple reasons.  The initial reason it is in a pdf, buried deep in the catalog is it makes it very difficult for search engines (google, bing, etc.) to pick up – making the tuition more difficult for someone to find prior to visiting or calling.  this is also why they put it just one non-descriptive link on a page that very few people will find on the site.

but the most important reason is, as stated before, they want you to call or visit the campus before they tell you the price.  why?  because it is in these private conversations with the prospect when they can mislead and pressure promise prospects into making the decision they want – the same actions found by the GAO posted on this site in September.  This way there is no evidence accept the prospect’s account – which American Career College can easily deny.  It is critical that they continue the high pressure tactics that they use because this is the only way they can get someone to pay over $15,000 for a Medical Assisting certificate that would cost less than $1,000 at a community college.

as with everything – people only hide what they don’t want others to know about them.  in this case, American Career College is charging students – thus indirectly every taxpayer – over 15x more than a community college.  talk about a ripoff…..